Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Are Republican Churches Skirting The Law?

28 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

Right before the election, conservative churches are showing their congregations videos that are designed to garner support for Republican candidates. Then they are admitting that they aren't allow to tell you who to vote for, but are directing you to websites that tell you to vote for Republican candidates. Given the mindset of these parishioners, they are in effect being ?forced? to vote Republican. Add these people to the tens of millions who are duped into voting conservative by the Republican Fraudcasting Network http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6i9KQ-qng and you can begin to understand how Republicans get elected despite having policies that suck to high heaven!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

By directing people to vote one way or the other, churches become no longer a non-profit tax free organization.

Personally, I have never thought churches should be tax free to begin with. They get the same police and fire protection, roads built up to their doors, emergency medical services, etc etc etc as everyone else. So why shouldn't they pay for these services, same as everyone else?

Tax 'em. Then allow them to politicize god all they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

i agree with you 100%,tom!for instance,it makes me SICK that the catholic corporation,um,i mean church,pays no taxes,yet you see all these well to do priests riding around in rolls royces,and molesting children&in some cases getting away with it!TAX THESE PHONY BASTARDS!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Is it OK for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rev Wright and all of the other Black Pastors to talk about politics in Church? I think so. Are those people Brain washed? Well uh No. It's funny how people who go to church acutually do think for themselves from time to time and Don't do what the preacher or church or Bible says.. often.

But should all the Black, Native American, Asian and Hispanic Churches be taxed as well or only the Rich ones?

the only reason there is a law at all prohibiting Churches from speeking overtly about politics is because LBJ created an IRS law that made it so. Why, because he was afraid of the Conservative churches. Not out of any purist views of separation. just good ol boy hardball politics.

you know like FL 2004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Is it OK for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rev Wright and all of the other Black Pastors to talk about politics in Church? I think so.

i think so too. but they should pay their taxes like every other non-profit organization that endorses politicians

you need to make the case of why Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rev Wright and all of the other Black Pastors should be exempt from paying taxes on their income like you and i do!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I also agree if politics is presented in church ...............Those churches should be taxed.

:thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Sooo it's great that they talk about politics now.

it's just that they should all pay taxes?

so we all agree that Churches have been skirting the IRS laws for both parties.

i guess my only question now is, should Rev Left and Father Right etc go to jail, or the churches be fined over this TODAY? Or would you let them slide this time... but next election you'd push for, hope for Harsher enforcement and crack downs on the ALL Churches that were getting away with this horrible crime of speaking during election season about politics while not paying taxes?

Frankly, The way things are now I don't care if anyone gets away with not paying taxes. seeing what's done with it. AND the fact that groups like Bank of America and Citi bank have managed not to pay taxes in the past. I say let the churches get away with keeping their nickels and dimes. At least the money stays local.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Sooo it's great that they talk about politics now.

it's just that they should all pay taxes?

Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

All those churches should be taxed, starting today, to avert any waste of time

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Frankly, The way things are now I don't care if anyone gets away with not paying taxes. seeing what's done with it.

Oh, c'mon, now, you can't possibly mean that!

Seeing what's done with it? Roads and bridges, police and firefighters, hospitals and rescue squads, schools and orphan care? This is not important to you?

You know, every politician running for office promises to rid Washington of the waste. Then they get to Washington, and do nothing.

That's because there is damn little waste in the Federal budget.

It's all propaganda. Every independent study ever done has said the same: There is damn little waste in the Federal budget.

And horrors! What waste is found is almost always in corporate welfare and pork barrels.

No politician is gonna cut the corporate welfare, since the Federal government is owned lock stock and barrel by the corporations. And no politician is gonna say no to any pork, because the folk back home love it.

That's how the politicians get elected, you know: Corporate campaign finance and pork barrel projects that the people want.

No, no, no this will never go away, until the society changes, a paradigm shift of unbelievable scope.

Now, if by what you mean is "Seeing as how all too much ends up as corporate welfare" I would agree with you.

As to pork barrel, admit it, you love it - as long as it's your district! It's only when it's in the other fella's district do you hate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Oh, c'mon, now, you can't possibly mean that!

Yeah pretty much. I'm not for anymore money taken from middle and lower class. There's enough money in the system now to do what the Feds need to do if they'd account for it properly IMO. Instead of letting Trillions go missing at the pentagon, AND other gov't depts.

Seeing what's done with it? Roads and bridges, police and firefighters, hospitals and rescue squads, schools and orphan care? This is not important to you?

Police, Fire, Schools are mainly paid locally, Roads and Bridges could be state if the dollors did't flow past them to the feds and come back down after after Federal bureaucratic cuts are taken.

You know, every politician running for office promises to rid Washington of the waste. Then they get to Washington, and do nothing.

So why should we chase after churches or much of anyone if the gov't can't handle what they arlready have?

That's because there is damn little waste in the Federal budget.

It's all propaganda. Every independent study ever done has said the same: There is damn little waste in the Federal budget.

And horrors! What waste is found is almost always in corporate welfare and pork barrels.

So there is waste then.

No politician is gonna cut the corporate welfare, since the Federal government is owned lock stock and barrel by the corporations. And no politician is gonna say no to any pork, because the folk back home love it.

That's how the politicians get elected, you know: Corporate campaign finance and pork barrel projects that the people want.

No, no, no this will never go away, until the society changes, a paradigm shift of unbelievable scope.

So it's a bad system but we should keep feeding it no matter what? Seem to me the revolutionary thing to do would be to starve the beast rather than resign yourself to the fate. I say if the politicians are that corrupt then if a few folks can get out of paying taxes GOOD ON UM.

Now, if by what you mean is "Seeing as how all too much ends up as corporate welfare" I would agree with you.

Both And

As to pork barrel, admit it, you love it - as long as it's your district! It's only when it's in the other fella's district do you hate it.

That's the basic problem with big Gov't in a nutshell. People will use it to steal from others. It's a problem with the system, Rs&Ds, big corps and interest groups all work it for their friends benefit. And the people without connections or clout get a thin covering of gov't services sauce. While the Connected get the meat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Police, Fire, Schools are mainly paid locally, Roads and Bridges could be state if the dollors did't flow past them to the feds and come back down after after Federal bureaucratic cuts are taken.

The Federal gov't kicked in a big percentage of money to States for what you mention, before reagan stepped into the presidency.

So shut down education for all but the rich. Let the levees overflow................ect., ect.

Some logic, ron/rand/ilk

:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Sooo it's great that they talk about politics now.

no, it's not

it's just that they should all pay taxes?

yes, they should

so we all agree that Churches have been skirting the IRS laws for both parties.

yes, we do

i guess my only question now is, should Rev Left and Father Right etc go to jail

no, they should not

or the churches be fined over this TODAY?

they should lose their tax exemption status

the answers to your questions were obvious.

that you felt it necessary to ask them,

and do so sarcastically,

makes it appear that you are fishing for an argument

here's 2 questions for you...

Frankly, The way things are now I don't care if anyone gets away with not paying taxes

then you are OK with the 47% not paying Federal income tax, correct?

I say let the churches get away with keeping their nickels and dimes

are you OK with the working poor keeping their nickels and dimes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

no, it's not

yes, they should

yes, we do

no, they should not

they should lose their tax exemption status

the answers to your questions were obvious.

that you felt it necessary to ask them,

and do so sarcastically,

makes it appear that you are fishing for an argument

No the answers aren't obvious really, others here have answered differently than you. And the nature of the 1st post is kind of a challenge for an argument unless everyone here suppose to have the same opinion.

here's 2 questions for you...

then you are OK with the 47% not paying Federal income tax, correct?

Depends on who what and why. As I said i don't have a problem with Churches or other charitable agencies. But a congressmen not paying taxes I think is pretty foul since he's/she's is writing it into law.

are you OK with the working poor keeping their nickels and dimes?

Absolutely. making apx 25,000 or less. tax free is fine by me. And Frankly Income tax was/is against the constitution. It came about when congress convinced the people that the only people who would be taxed was the rich. but surprise surprise it's hit everyone and "the rich" have managed to get out of paying what is suppose to be their "fair share" whatever that is.

BUT if we want to tax something I think the idea of a sales tax on stock trades is great. billions get traded daily tax free. a 1% sales tax would go a long way. for 1 suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

i have no argument with that

(based on the original post, i thought you might be a right-winger posing as an independent)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

BUT if we want to tax something I think the idea of a sales tax on stock trades is great. billions get traded daily tax free. a 1% sales tax would go a long way. for 1 suggestion.

I agree in principle, but think the proper route is return the capital gains tax to the pre-Reagan rate of 35%.

Why should the banks and the bankers only pay 15% tax, when every other business is paying 35% (in theory - in practice many are paying nothing and all are paying less, through corporate welfare), and the ones who create the wealth in the first place, the farmer, the miner, the factory worker, the artist, are all paying 35%.

Romney, who lives off his investments and creates no wealth, is paying only 15% tax before deductions drop it to 13% or so. He pays at a higher rate than many fatcats do.

Addendum: Hey, Tin Soldier, who the hell is this "I want this" people who are turning my words into commercial links? Are they paying you for the right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Hey, Tin Soldier, who the hell is this "I want this" people who are turning my words into commercial links? Are they paying you for the right?

huh? please clarify

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

huh? please clarify

Never mind. Following my snark, I went into my computer's programming and found this weird program that some arse on some site loaded onto my computer. Uninstalled it, destroyed it, it's gone away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Your artical just reached aol news, Tom's Fork.

I quote from the first part of the article:

Evangelist Billy Graham took out full-page national newspaper ads clearly backing Mitt Romney. Photograph: Nell Redmond/AP

This fall, millions of people learned in church that they could go to hell if they didn't vote for a certain presidential candidate or party platform. Millions more took in media advertisements sponsored by religious groups that made the same point.

Let us set aside the question about whether God takes sides in American elections. The more pressing fact about this kind of religious-political advertising is that you, dear taxpayer, are footing part of the bill.

I have absolutely NO respect for the grahams!

Now Frank Schaeffer, on the other hand, is one real Christian and I find him sane and honest to boot!

http://www.frankschaeffer.com/?3e3ea140

Check out the video about his latest book and his life story.

interesting, enlightening and humorous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Fundamentalists around the world tend to push medieval politics and values on everyone. In the US they represent what remains of our agrarian roots and it's not a coincidence 90% of all democrats live in urban areas. They aren't skirting the law so much as they wrote the laws which allow them to defend an economic and political system that supports their way of life. Thankfully in recent years they've become so unhinged after being on the losing side for the last half century they're even chasing their own children away and within the next twenty years it's estimated their fangs will finally be pulled as people continue to migrate to the cities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

After reading the last post I wondered

Fundamentalists around the world tend to push medieval politics and values on everyone

of the connection of religion, Agraian Roots, and came upon pramatic agriarianism, ect.

which got me thinking about my trip to Holland and the Rhine/Danube Rivers cruise to Budapest where we saw ALL those churches and Forts all along the way,

which led me to think of the WARS for Freedom FROM that Dictatorship and for social equality

which led me to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States

skip

The colonies were characterized by religious diversity, with many Congregationalists in New England, German and Dutch Reformed in the Middle Colonies, Catholics in Maryland, and Scotch Irish Presbyterians on the frontier. Many royal officials and merchants were Anglicans.[22]

Religiosity expanded greatly after the First Great Awakening, a religious revival in the 1740s led by preachers such as Jonathan Edwards. American Evangelicals affected by the Awakening added a new emphasis on divine outpourings of the Holy Spirit and conversions that implanted within new believers an intense love for God. Revivals encapsulated those hallmarks and forwarded the newly created evangelicalism into the early republic, setting the stage for the Second Great Awakening beginning in the late 1790s.[23]

skip

I thought of America, the Land of The Free,

To worship a god, spirit, whatever......... OR NOT!

so

I want freedom FROM YOUR Religion as our Constitution states!

The church has no Right to dictate our politics!

Those that do.............TAX THEM!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The fact is the so called civil rights movement took root in black Churches.

Remember the reverend Martin Luther King? In the 60's black Churches were a hotbed of political activity.
Any way politics and religion can not be separated because the Bible predicts what the political leaders will do.
Also the pope for example has his nose suck in politics.
Oh and to the ignorant SOB that says the constitution states freedom from religion its intent was FREEDOM OF RELIGION dumb ass.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

the 60's black Churches were a hotbed of political activity

the church has always and can always take positions on issues (free speech)
i.e. they can speak up for civil rights, against gay marriage and abortion, etc..

what they can't do, and remain exempt from paying tax on their income like everyone else
is be directly involved in elections and endorse a party or candidate

if they endorse or promote Mitt Romney or G.W.Bush or Ted Cruz or Hillary Clinton or the DNC
they have become a political fundraiser rather than a charitable organization with special privileges that other organization don't have

constitution states freedom from religion its intent was FREEDOM OF RELIGION

the constitution provides for both freedom of religion and freedom from religion at the same time
the colonists were escaping the domination of the church of England

if you have any other questions FUBAR, we are here to help
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

Since you answered FUBAR so kindly, maybe you can tell me where you are now in the leftist camp, according to what you hear about the tax thing and about spiritual movements. It came across the pond that scientologists have been a big target once again, this time in the public opinion. Any development ? In terms of status, tax exempts movements that could be more commercial than spiritual, and there would be quite a lot of those !?!

PS: we don't apply the same rules here, but jehova's witnesses do well despite their business activity. Other movements do too, some are regularly out of bounds, scientology owed millions (about 50) in taxes, they might be a church at home, here you can't have a non-profit status if you profit and they don't want to hear it. It's bad enough some Narconon (or whatever) got implanted and only a manager was condemned for "gross negligence" and non-assistance à personne en danger- simple enough to translate, but does not exist in every country(not in UK). Yeah, we too had to have a dead on our hands to wonder about them.

Edited by ababof

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0